Riddle me this:

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Riddle me this:

Postby Captain Sensible » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:47 pm

Okay, people said the models were too expensive.

People said the rules were broken.

People said the game wasn't tactical enough.

So why, when fantasy was dropped, did most people dump it and take up another costly toy soldier hobby? Can't be the cost.
Can't be the game system because people in the other games also [removed] and moan about the rules.
Can't be tactics either, because they're all similarly tightly focused.

So what's the real issue? Is it a need to constantly buy new crap or keep up with the latest gizmo's?
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby Andre Muller » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:51 pm

I think it's got to do with the company that produces said game... who here has any love left for geedub?


*kriek kriek*
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby Loud MOFO » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:53 pm

Captain, you have got something here......
One of the main gripes was that fantasy became like 40K, but what is war-machine?

No Rank and file and putting models on round bases was why most left.
And they start playing what.....you guessed it....No rank and file units and round bases.

So "why" is a really a good question here....
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby Captain Sensible » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:08 pm

Loud mofo is connecting the dots I intended. So, what's your answer?
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby Azimyth » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:25 pm

Privateer Press(PP) actively enagages with their players and actually fix over/underpowered models(mostly) as opposed to GW who basically said "If you haven't got the latest army or deamons, [removed] off and die".
That is the reason people support PP over GW, and seeing how Mantic is with KoW could make them as well.
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby henning » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:00 pm

I haven't changed my logic with regards to the game I play
It's funny because it's punny :P

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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby Captain Sensible » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:04 pm

I agree azimyth. But why the need to chuck out the collections and catch a major malfunction when all that crap never stopped them before?
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby henning » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:13 pm

We play the Carnage campaign so regularly have games on Wednesday evenings at TVBB. The looks we get and amount of people who tell us we are stupid or incredulously ask why we play fantasy is shocking.

Some of it comes from people I have heard saying they love fantasy. Now, I don't know what other peoples definition of love is but when I say I like a game, then I like it. You don't just stop liking/loving it because other people said you must.

Bunch of blind sheep I say!
It's funny because it's punny :P

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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby und_ed » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:42 pm

The problem is you're lumping different people's complaints into effectively one person.

For some people, the problem is the cost. Those people are now playing something cheaper. (KoW comes to mind)
For some people (I fit in here), the problem was the terrible custodianship of their rules-set. Those people are now playing Warmachine.
For some people, the problem was it's getting too similar to 40K. Those people are now playing KoW.
For some people, the problem was an overwhelming fear of being abused by the strange in a dark alley. Those people sleep with the lights on.

Don't overgeneralise, and the conspiracy-theory logic stops making sense.
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby steristumpie » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:44 pm

For us in PE it was pretty simple.

We loved warhammer fantasy but we weren't prepared to play an unsupported system.

KoW and its elegant simplicity with tactical depth was the logical next step to use the mini's we invested thousands of rands and hundreds of hours into.
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby Captain Sensible » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:29 am

und_ed wrote:The problem is you're lumping different people's complaints into effectively one person.


Prove it.

und_ed wrote:For some people, the problem was an overwhelming fear of being abused by the strange in a dark alley. Those people sleep with the lights on.


And this here is the single most heinous lie you've ever uttered. I did NOT abuse those people - I made sweet love to them.

As for original comment, there are slightly different takes on different issues, but ultimately I'd like to know each person's real reason for quitting the way they are. And as much as people will argue against this, the simple fact is most people do things for reasons they don't fully understand.
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby Alqualonde » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:01 pm

I enjoyed playing the End Times because it was outright uncompetitive fun with lots of toys on the table, for the same reason I enjoy Apocalypse. However I have been rekindling my first interest in gaming - I got in because of a strong interest in military history. I am currently building up a large French Napoleonic army which should be ready to fight in early January (I've never fielded an unpainted Napoleonic miniature). I also have some Zulus and a pile of models to do Rorkes Drift. That'll be coming along soon as well.

Overall though - there is currently I want from GW at the moment - Eldar are pretty much just in need of painting, as are my Undead / Vamps / Tomb Kings. Happy to field any of these during the week - weekends I escape the big smoke.
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby und_ed » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:09 pm

I don't think you give people enough credit, Strange.

While most people aren't very good at articulating their own thinking, they usually have a decent idea of why they make most decisions (certainly big, impactful ones anyway).

When you try to oversimplify their decision-making, you get confusion and contradiction.

Lets take my decision as an example. I walked away from WHFB about 8 months before AoS dropped. WHFB wasn't meeting what I wanted from a game, and so I moved on to Warmachine. So, lets look at that decision - what I want from a game:

- Depth of tactical and strategic play.
- Cool-looking minis
- Well-balanced gameplay
- Attentive custodianship of rules, and a dedication to fixing problems
- ranked combat with meaningful manouvering

When I left WHFB, I felt that the only items on my checklist that WHFB met was cool minis, and a smattering of the last one as manouvering was becoming less and less relevant. I went to Warmachine, which if you're wondering does not check all of the above desires - while it ticks the first four (although the minis in Warhammer are more appealing to me), the last is very poor in Warmachine, being a skirmish game (so not ranked) and having a very wide arc of sight, which combined with the unit-by-unit activation makes for very shallow manouvering importance.

That doesn't mean the last isn't important. It means that the rest was so good that I could forgive it not ticking one of my preferences. You combine all the factors above and you see why I was annoyed enough to leave WHFB, even though my replacement game doesn't account for every one of my gripes.
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby Doc Rot » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:08 pm

Kow has the support and the tactical depth that fantasy never had. Also the models are much much cheaper. And also in our minds there is no point playing an unsupported system. That's the eastern cape mentality and as steristumpie said before we've even got hardened 40k players in on it
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Re: Riddle me this:

Postby Captain Sensible » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:44 am

Unded you're spot on there mate, I don't give people credit, and you don't see them for what they are. It's simply because I'm unreasonable and you're argumentative.

But you're right about one thing, you did lose interest in it shortly before Age of Danie hit the dirt.

I also just don't really care which way all this goes, i think my hobby mojo died off some years back, but there are in fact quite a few people in the hobby I actually like. Only reason I went to tournaments and sat through the kak rules and whatnots, and even tolerated some pariahs. Simply to spend a little time with the miscreants.

I just don;t want to waste time and money on more junk toys simply to talk kak with the people on here, which is the real enjoyment for me. Sorry unded, I know you're about the game, I'm about the painting and camaraderie and telling Wayne Buys he's not old enough for these discussions and should go to bed. :thumbup:
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