Heartbroken about dwarves

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Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby mikegeyser » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:30 pm

[Warning: opinions below. They are mine and they are biased, sure. I honestly don't mean to rail at anyone that likes AoS or the new style, you are welcome to your opinions.]

So I looked at the new plastic dwarf slayer models that I have spent years (and years) waiting for. Literally. I didn't buy avatars of war slayers because I was expecting something magical. Also, the dwarf release was always going to be the test of whether I was going to try and give AoS a real go. I said to myself I would give it six months for the drama to die down, and for the game to show itself off...

Man..

So I sit here looking at yet another post on BOLS on how to 'fix' AoS rules. I look at models that have some promise but a) look like they've been rushed, and b) are a serious departure from a high fantasy style that I love. They are detailed, but emotionless (for berserkers?!) and static. The ones that they've tried to make dynamic look like they're floating. I read through the warscrolls, and it sounds like they let 12 year olds name every thing. Fyresteel? Magmadron? Molten rock-bolts? Polearms with flaming flails attached? What?! How does that even..

I've been collecting and playing dwarves since '97. I hope you understand when I say I'm heartbroken.

As an aside, I've had fun with KoW. I really like the game mechanics. It plays like AoS should have. It feels balanced. It's great. But it doesn't have the inspiring style and fluff, and doesn't take away the disappointment. I think there's a big part of why I played WFB that KoW will never fulfil.

Why post here? I don't know. Maybe because this sub forum may contain some of the last people in RSA to care about WFB. I try to stay positive, but I don't feel like there's much to be positive about right now.

/rant over (sorry)
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Andre Muller » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:56 pm

I think loads of guys feel the same!

In CT there are a few die hard players refusing to give in... We started a campaign using the frurion rules for warhammer but now 9th age is getting some traction and we will reset our campaign to 9th rules.

No game i've played quite scratches the warhammer itch... 9th seems to be our saving grace
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Doc Rot » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:28 pm

I honestly think KoW is a better game than 8th ever was. In fact I'd go as far as saying its better than the glory days of 4th ed. But I agree with the feeling that the fluff is missing, and it doesn't grab me by the goolies like WHFB did back in the 90's.

However, multibasing gives me tons of options and also allows me to field more than I could in WHFB. As I've said before, Eastern Cape has abandoned WHFB in its entirety. We all prefer KoW to WHFB. The game mechanics. Plus what with the move to multi basing WHFB is gone to me.

On a side note, 95% of the fantasy players at my old club have abandoned WHFB (and AoS) in favour of KoW. As in they won't lay 9th age or Furion. They'd rather play a supported product. I think 2 play AoS, though I think that may have already gone down to 1.
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Ginga » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:38 pm

Can one ..... really play AoS?

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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Andre Muller » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:25 pm

with beer and pretzels... for [removed] and giggles... yes

but then there are better games out to do just that. Pretty much any other game you can think of
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Dark Angel » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:25 pm

Not sure what to tell you mike. I too love my fantasy stuff and was crushed when the new edition came out.

I've been through the various stages of grief and made piece with it. I settled on warmachine as my main game that I'll play in tournaments which I enjoy but otherwise I have shelved most of my stuff. I'd sell it if there was a market for it it I'll keep and continue to finish off my chaos.

I love fantasy and plan to continue to play it in some form with gamers I enjoy playing. The edition and rules don't really matter, the people you play with is more important. Fantasy will probably end up as my Saturday night game against lie minded gamers and I'll continue to have a blast with it ether with some form of 8th Ed or modified 8th Ed or the fan generated rules.

Feel free to swing past for a game with your doffs once I move and my stuff is unpacked
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Dark Angel » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:28 pm

As an aside I went into a GW in Manchester and was chatting to some of the guys. They are selling more of the new rubbish than they did with fantasy so perhaps the change has some merit for them as a company however I still feel that they could have had the same result had they fixed fantasy rather than flushing it down the toilet and launching a new game
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Baldrick » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:51 am

Dark Angel wrote:As an aside I went into a GW in Manchester and was chatting to some of the guys. They are selling more of the new rubbish than they did with fantasy so perhaps the change has some merit for them as a company however I still feel that they could have had the same result had they fixed fantasy rather than flushing it down the toilet and launching a new game


Sad but true. I am by no means a fantasy player, but love the fluff. Was at the London Warhammer/GW store and they also stated that they are selling far more of the current AoS rubbish than Fantasy previously. I guess 4pages of rules appeals to 12 yr olds. So sad.

As for gaming, much like myself, play an older edition with your friends and forget tournaments. We all live in hope for a better rule set . But this may never happen. Things change, life and the hobbies change.....just a pity for all the time, effort and money invested in the hobby during the 90s, 00's and early 10's...........

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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby The BAG » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:49 am

baseless propoganda.
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby DaImp » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:24 am

Yeah, I really miss the fluff and the world that was Warhammer Fantasy. That was a fantasy world that I grew up with, discovering it in the late 80s and loving the freshness and vitality that was the Warhammer world. It was the biggest draw card into the game. I tried other wargaming systems but nothing had the history and gut feel of Warhammer. Nothing is going to replace that. KoW is the better gaming system for me but it is still basically just a rules system. It doesn't have the depth of the story that Warhammer has/had. I still pretend I am playing in the Warhammer world while playing KoW. But hey, I'm making the best of whats left. AoS just falls flat for me unfortunately, everything about it just doesn't appeal.
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Danie Smit » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:00 am

although i like the fyreslayer models, the prices are just insane. I would never expect an opponent to have the actual models (for anything anymore of actually) if they'd want to play them. As long as an opponent can easily tell what is what of course.

It's a misconception that AoS is 4 pages of rules. Yes, the core is 4 pages, but when you boil down the 8th ed rulebook you'll find the same (probably 10 pages or so, but still). Removing all special rules and so on of course. These are all on the warscrolls now. And there's a LOT of scenarios with extra rules on now as well. Games are not skirmish size / style as is misconceived, the games can and will sometimes be bigger than your 2500pts 8th ed norms.

it's stupid to me that they advanced the storyline so far so quickly - it shocked a lot of vets out of the game, but i guess it had to be done as a company (if sales as reported by GW employees as mentioned above are to be believed). But nothing stops you from playing in the known warhammer world in 2520 ic (imperial calendar), or in the end times which ran until about 2530 ic or in the time of Mordheim which was around 1999 ic, or the war of vengeance (war of the beard) which was around -2000 to -1600 ic or the age of sigmar which is +50000000 ic (exaggerating on purpose) - the background is so rich, ignore AoS if you have to, play 8th ed or 9th age or AoS or KoW. Warhammer is Warhammer and will always be Warhammer. It's what you make it to be, not what GW makes it for you.

Me, i decided to embrace the rules set of AoS and the time period that it comes in, with the advanced fluff that it comes with (Slaanesh captured by Tyrion? Awesome!). I'm going to try get a little league going for AoS at Warzone, using modified version of the Azyr Comp rules (i still cant wrap my head around not having a points system, but so be it, Azyr covers it quite well). Give it a try. Or dont
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby mikegeyser » Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:20 pm

Danie Smit wrote:Warhammer is Warhammer and will always be Warhammer. It's what you make it to be, not what GW makes it for you.


This is very true. I agree wholeheartedly.

It's just that you want to play a well supported system AND get awesome new models AND read awesome stories. I know it's ridiculously entitled of me to want it all, but hey - y'know.. :P
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby und_ed » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:43 pm

I really love KoW, and I'm of the same opinion as the Doc that it's a better rule system than any version of WHFB that I've played (so 6th, 7th and 8th).

As for the fluff, I've never been much of a fan of the WHFB background (or any of GW's writing, at that) so I really don't miss it, but of of course if you liked their writing then I understand that its lack will pinch.
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Golf Alpha Zulu » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:58 pm

Dark Angel wrote:As an aside I went into a GW in Manchester and was chatting to some of the guys. They are selling more of the new rubbish than they did with fantasy so perhaps the change has some merit for them as a company however I still feel that they could have had the same result had they fixed fantasy rather than flushing it down the toilet and launching a new game


GW have recently issued a profit warning:

http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-c ... tement.pdf
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Re: Heartbroken about dwarves

Postby Doc Rot » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:11 pm

I think that GeeDub employees are programmed to say that AoS is really taking off. They are probably monitored and get fired if they dare to utter the truth. Dark Angel and Balders.....Did they look nervously at the cameras before they responded to your question?
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