ADR

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Re: ADR

Postby Total Gee » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:28 am

Wow DA, seem so bitter.

Explain why you think every faction is going to ADR, I wouldn't for Trolls why would you?

just want to understand the hate
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Re: ADR

Postby Dark Angel » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:26 am

I like it when you have to make trade offs in the game. I feel like with ADR makes it too easy. Also I hate it that all you see (up here in JHB) is ADR casters. Perhaps things are different on CT but I actually find ADR to be a turn off for me right now.
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Re: ADR

Postby The italian job » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:14 am

ADR restrict your choiches to 4 casters. Depending on what you got on ADR it can be good (Cygnar is extremely good with Stryker 2, Caine and Haley) or can be subpar. Getting a sideboard do not, in any way, compete with deploying your top casters. ADR was made to avoid to see the same Haley1 + Haley2 combo, Butcher 3 + Sorscha2, Hairbringer + Durst, Aspy 2 + Denny 1/2. You get a slightly reward in terms of specialists if you get casters you need to think out of the box with, but the reward do not, in any case, exceed the advantage of deploying your top casters. Usually it's the caster who dictate the matchup, not 20 points of troops.
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Re: ADR

Postby joppie » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:59 pm

Oh my dear little italian maestro. ADR does just that, it adds something to your army that opponent has no way to plan for. ADR was very good when the casters was mediocre, gave you 20 points to change things a bit according to who you facing, so that gave lesser casters some good game. Now that the casters are retarded, ADR is just silly. Most faction's best caster is on ADR, so most people would have taken them anyway.
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Re: ADR

Postby joppie » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:02 pm

Would it be possible to hold a poll, or referendum, to see of those attending, who would like the ADR, and who would like to scrap it altogether?
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Re: ADR

Postby Total Gee » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:14 pm

I actually agree with The Italian Job. Having played many games using ADR and not.

Sure legion got away like bandits on the last ADR, but for the rest why would I not play Doomy 1 or 3
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Re: ADR

Postby Total Gee » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:18 pm

joppie wrote:Would it be possible to hold a poll, or referendum, to see of those attending, who would like the ADR, and who would like to scrap it altogether?


It is too late for that, plane tickets have been bought, models have been ordered, lists have been in play testing since late last year. Most people have their lists worked out and practiced, not only will that change what they will play if they are playing ADR. It will change every ones perceived match ups as well, so those counters people been working on get thrown out the window too.

Last year people bitched that it wasn't masters format, this year some are sad that their is ADR, impossible to keep every one happy.
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Re: ADR

Postby Total Gee » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:20 pm

Dark Angel wrote:I like it when you have to make trade offs in the game. I feel like with ADR makes it too easy. Also I hate it that all you see (up here in JHB) is ADR casters. Perhaps things are different on CT but I actually find ADR to be a turn off for me right now.



Yeah ADR is definitely not as big here as in JHB, if every one is using ADR there. Most people dropped it after play testing. Some kept it, some didn't bother.
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Re: ADR

Postby The italian job » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:09 pm

joppie wrote:Oh my dear little italian maestro. ADR does just that, it adds something to your army that opponent has no way to plan for. ADR was very good when the casters was mediocre, gave you 20 points to change things a bit according to who you facing, so that gave lesser casters some good game. Now that the casters are retarded, ADR is just silly. Most faction's best caster is on ADR, so most people would have taken them anyway.


I disagree.

The only retarded ADR is cygnar, if you feel that you can win everything because ADR, you can play them, since you got them.

Regarding other ADR:

Khador: It's fine but we all know khador.com is Butcher 3 plus Sorscha 2. All the casters on ADR are good but not retarded. Bonus: if you go ADR you can fit the bloody Assault Kommandor + Torch, since there are stuff now pulling out fire and corrosion from their arses.

Menoth: got efeora (and in Khador you can use AK because you can clearly see it coming) and the High Reclaimer for some cloudwall (and you can use the bloody AK again). Strong probably but not retarded.

Cryx: got Skarre and a bunch of other casters that are strong but they're not Aspy2 + Deneghra, or Goreshade 2 bane spam that is what you usually see.

Retribution: don't comment since I don't know the faction and to me they looks all the same

Convergence: they got only 4 casters, duh

Mercs: you got Batolo and Madhammer but for sure they are not all star casters like mcBain, Gorten or Ashlynn

Trolls: Ryan knows better and he is not going ADR

Circle: strong but no Goatvhanna. Moshar is useless and Baldur is not top tier. So you got eKrueger and Kromac (and don't tell me you don't see this coming)

Skorne: I don't think what we got here is commonly played or retardely powerful, but I don't know the faction so well.

Legion: got Vayl but nothing else incredibly powerful

Minions: whatever. You know they're going to spam froggies and gatormen.

I struggle what is considered in this ADR incredibly powerful and retarded. Then if the ADR should be composed entirely by unplayable stuff like Karchev or Strakhov or Amon, well I don't know.

At least know you got quite viable casters (maybe not top tier) so at least you have a reason to use the ADR instead of using the usual notorious casters.
If you can predict which casters people will take since it's so obvious they will chose from ADR (and the ADR choice should it make even more obvious, unless you play against Evan) then good for you, you already got an advantage.
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Re: ADR

Postby Dark Angel » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:55 pm

I actually find it to be quite compelling to take adr in almost every faction. Did they put the absolute best caster in each faction in this adr? No but they came pretty close. I have 5 factions and I struggle to find a reason not to go ADR in all of them.

For me it narrows the field of casters you see and as I said, you can plan for all eventualities. You can also put in risky choices and sideboard them out of needed. Ed does that particularly well.

I preferred the game when you had to try and build for every eventuality into 2 lists rather. Than pick 2 of your preferred ADR casters and build for all eventualities. Perhaps it's just my personal preference at work here but I don't like the concept once you give top tier casters ADR slots. At all.
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Re: ADR

Postby und_ed » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:09 pm

You're badly underestimating many of the casters and lists, Jobbie, not to mention the power boost that ADR represents.

The italian job wrote:Khador: It's fine but we all know khador.com is Butcher 3 plus Sorscha 2. All the casters on ADR are good but not retarded. Bonus: if you go ADR you can fit the bloody Assault Kommandor + Torch, since there are stuff now pulling out fire and corrosion from their arses.


Khador ADR is great. pVlad, Irusk and Zerks2 are all very strong, boosted stronger by ADR. ADR easily makes up for not including Butcher3.

The italian job wrote:Menoth: got efeora (and in Khador you can use AK because you can clearly see it coming) and the High Reclaimer for some cloudwall (and you can use the bloody AK again). Strong probably but not retarded.


High reclaimer has lately become one of the strongest tournament casters without ADR. Fitting into his cloud game, Feora2 is a fantastic complementary caster to play into Legion.

The italian job wrote:Cryx: got Skarre and a bunch of other casters that are strong but they're not Aspy2 + Deneghra, or Goreshade 2 bane spam that is what you usually see.


It's Cryx, probably the deepest pool of tournament-contender-level casters in the game. In this case, Skarre2 pairs beautifully with Goreshade3 or Mortenebra, go nuts. Could even pair Shade and Morty, whatever floats your boat.

The italian job wrote:Retribution: don't comment since I don't know the faction and to me they looks all the same


Ret are in trouble, since they have nobody that can reasonably play into Lylyth2. Probably the only faction I would recommend avoiding ADR.

The italian job wrote:Convergence: they got only 4 casters, duh


Agreed.

The italian job wrote:Mercs: you got Batolo and Madhammer but for sure they are not all star casters like mcBain, Gorten or Ashlynn


They're all about the same. Nothing to really see here, but no good reason to not take the power of specialists.

The italian job wrote:Trolls: Ryan knows better and he is not going ADR


He hasn't decided yet. More importantly, you have a great ranged caster in Gunnbjorn paired with one of the strongest casters in trolls namely eMadrak. Why wouldn't you go ADR?

The italian job wrote:Circle: strong but no Goatvhanna. Moshar is useless and Baldur is not top tier. So you got eKrueger and Kromac (and don't tell me you don't see this coming)


What on earth are you smoking here? Circle have both of their curse of shadows casters available (Mohsar and Cassius, and I'll hear none of this rubbish claiming Mohsar is useless) either of which can be paired with pKromac. ADR is fantastic here btw, since you can stick that situational pureblood into your specialists for when you need Wraithbane.

The italian job wrote:Skorne: I don't think what we got here is commonly played or retardely powerful, but I don't know the faction so well.


pMorghoul, eHexris - what more do you need? Top-tier tournament casters with the added benefit of specialists.

The italian job wrote:Legion: got Vayl but nothing else incredibly powerful


Are you drunk? Not only is eAbsy fantastic, but putting Lylyth2 on to ADR is right up there with Haley1. Tied for the strongest roster this season.

The italian job wrote:Minions: whatever. You know they're going to spam froggies and gatormen.


eh, no argument.

The italian job wrote:I struggle what is considered in this ADR incredibly powerful and retarded. Then if the ADR should be composed entirely by unplayable stuff like Karchev or Strakhov or Amon, well I don't know.


So I'm going to avoid your request for "retarded", as it's ridiculously imprecise. Not only that, it makes the assumption that some casters are so strong as to be almost unfair, and I don't believe that to be true of any caster. Most of the factions have top-tier combinations available that cover each other's matchups.

I actually like this season, even though it's not what I wanted out of the ADR system, since everyone has very strong options with an interesting mechanic (specialists) to shake things up.
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Re: ADR

Postby Total Gee » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:01 am

und_ed wrote:
The italian job wrote:Khador: It's fine but we all know khador.com is Butcher 3 plus Sorscha 2. All the casters on ADR are good but not retarded. Bonus: if you go ADR you can fit the bloody Assault Kommandor + Torch, since there are stuff now pulling out fire and corrosion from their arses.


Khador ADR is great. pVlad, Irusk and Zerks2 are all very strong, boosted stronger by ADR. ADR easily makes up for not including Butcher3.


Man I don't know about that, I think butcher 3, Zerks2 combo is hard to pass up on. This one is good as the option is viable, so cool we aren't guaranteed to see B3 this is a good thing, keeping the meta fresh
und_ed wrote:
The italian job wrote:Menoth: got efeora (and in Khador you can use AK because you can clearly see it coming) and the High Reclaimer for some cloudwall (and you can use the bloody AK again). Strong probably but not retarded.


High reclaimer has lately become one of the strongest tournament casters without ADR. Fitting into his cloud game, Feora2 is a fantastic complementary caster to play into Legion.


Yeah that high reclaimer efeora pairing seems pretty shweet, lacking a bit on the armor crack. Basically Braddiggas and Doomy3 (trolls in general) are going to give you nightmares. Not sure how much love silent bob gets from ADR, as his list is a tight well oiled machine.

Its not a Harby/Durst combo, so I guess thats pretty cool, more options
und_ed wrote:
The italian job wrote:Cryx: got Skarre and a bunch of other casters that are strong but they're not Aspy2 + Deneghra, or Goreshade 2 bane spam that is what you usually see.


It's Cryx, probably the deepest pool of tournament-contender-level casters in the game. In this case, Skarre2 pairs beautifully with Goreshade3 or Mortenebra, go nuts. Could even pair Shade and Morty, whatever floats your boat.


To be honest, I think ADR is better here. Since cryx gets counter built so hard. No gaspy or Denny1 feels like a win though.
und_ed wrote:
The italian job wrote:Retribution: don't comment since I don't know the faction and to me they looks all the same


Ret are in trouble, since they have nobody that can reasonably play into Lylyth2. Probably the only faction I would recommend avoiding ADR.


Yeah, not only Lyl2
und_ed wrote:
The italian job wrote:Mercs: you got Batolo and Madhammer but for sure they are not all star casters like mcBain, Gorten or Ashlynn


They're all about the same. Nothing to really see here, but no good reason to not take the power of specialists.


Yeah Madhammer is awesome, I know I would. To bad him and bart both really want dougal. I think ADR for mercs is luck of the draw, as generally players dont own all merc casters.
und_ed wrote:
The italian job wrote:Trolls: Ryan knows better and he is not going ADR


He hasn't decided yet. More importantly, you have a great ranged caster in Gunnbjorn paired with one of the strongest casters in trolls namely eMadrak. Why wouldn't you go ADR?


Trolls ADR gives them a weaker match into Cryx, and no Doomy, not one Doomy....eMaddy was our top option, and really used the ADR well before the warder nerf.

Sure you might see some people playing the ADR, they not going to do well though.
und_ed wrote:
The italian job wrote:Circle: strong but no Goatvhanna. Moshar is useless and Baldur is not top tier. So you got eKrueger and Kromac (and don't tell me you don't see this coming)


What on earth are you smoking here? Circle have both of their curse of shadows casters available (Mohsar and Cassius, and I'll hear none of this rubbish claiming Mohsar is useless) either of which can be paired with pKromac. ADR is fantastic here btw, since you can stick that situational pureblood into your specialists for when you need Wraithbane.


Why play ADR, there is no reason in my opinion. Maybe if you cant like to have wolds. They could of even put eMorve on here and I would still say no.
und_ed wrote:
The italian job wrote:Skorne: I don't think what we got here is commonly played or retardely powerful, but I don't know the faction so well.


pMorghoul, eHexris - what more do you need? Top-tier tournament casters with the added benefit of specialists.


wtf is a skorn
und_ed wrote:
The italian job wrote:Legion: got Vayl but nothing else incredibly powerful


Are you drunk? Not only is eAbsy fantastic, but putting Lylyth2 on to ADR is right up there with Haley1. Tied for the strongest roster this season.


this is the best ADR out there IMO, a bit of a no brainer.
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Re: ADR

Postby The italian job » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:21 am

Whoops, I think I confused lilith 2 and 3.

Anyway the ADR scope is keeping the meta fresh and not making you see the same combo over and over again on the table. I think this ADR is filling the scope.

All playable casters, nothing incredibly crappy and good reasons to go ADR instead of deploying a netlist. What not to love?
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Re: ADR

Postby und_ed » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:20 am

Like i said, I like it. My point is not to underestimate how strong it can be.

@Gee
You don't think a Gunny / eMaddie pairing would be strong in trolls? I'd play that in a heartbeat. Both of them play well into Cryx, and they have wildly different playstyles to boot. Not only that, but Gunny is surprisingly strong with specialists, and and very few people have much practice playing into him due to his low popularity.

Circle as well I'd happily play in ADR - I really like the pairing of Mohsar + pKromac even without ADR, so having the specialists is just gravy. (Put a pureblood into Kromac's specialists, maybe have firefrogs as specialists in Mohsar... i can see stuff coming together like that). Obviously these are only initial thoughts, as most of my list-dreaming is being spent on Cryx right now.

As for wtf is a Skorn... you might be in for a rude shock. I have a lot of respect for Joppie's skorne, they're pretty damned scary right now.
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Re: ADR

Postby joppie » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:33 am

I've been playtesting an EIrusk Zerkova2 combo on vassal, and it's pretty good.
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