New Editions

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Re: New Editions

Postby Rorrak » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:33 am

The battle college site has some more updates.

Precis of rules.

Influence is no longer melee only.
You need to be completely within terrain/clouds to benefit. Not just partially.
You cannot charge your own people. (Huge!!!)
Speed debuffs no longer prevent charges.
Place effects generally wholly within.
Vet leaders now only confure +1 and must be within CMD not LOS

Denny-1 Mostly unchanged. Has a new spell in addition. Dark Seduction. Take control of Warrior model (non caster) get full advance (immune to free strikes) and one attack.
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Re: New Editions

Postby Dgremlin » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:11 pm

Rorrak wrote:You cannot charge your own people. (Huge!!!)
Speed debuffs no longer prevent charges.


No more charging your own people ? That removes a whole range of current game tactic/strategy, although I never minded this rule and thought it played well into the gametype.
Speed debuffs will also have quite a significant impact, and will really affect hit and run tactics
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Re: New Editions

Postby Rorrak » Tue May 10, 2016 10:06 pm

Wow wow wow.

The over boosting rule is gone. Now a caster can spend a focus to reduce incoming damage by 5 to a minimum of 1. This is massive. Wrapping my head around it for now. Has interesting implications.
They're something terribly satisfying about personally murdering the enemy wizard-general. Wracking them is cathartic, like squeezing a great big stress ball, except you're strapping it to a massive metal religious icon and it's screaming. -cryptomancer
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Re: New Editions

Postby Menset » Fri May 13, 2016 5:08 pm

Rorrak wrote:Wow wow wow.

The over boosting rule is gone. Now a caster can spend a focus to reduce incoming damage by 5 to a minimum of 1. This is massive. Wrapping my head around it for now. Has interesting implications.


I love this new rule. I play must Casters hot so I normally dont have much on them at the end of the turn. Now not only do I get a free focus per jack but I also get "+5 Arm" on a hit for 1 focus....yes please.

I think this makes the old men, thinking Nemo and Seve, even stronger in my book....a single focus is now able to save them at key points.
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Re: New Editions

Postby Dgremlin » Wed May 18, 2016 4:14 pm

HaHa.

Durgen Madhammer gets field marshal ( all ranged weapons in his battle group gain continuous fire ) ...
Going to give the Protectorate a run for its money, then again some Protectorate caster will be lapping it up ...

I do wonder what will happen to Gortens Feat now that Push is gone ( since his feat was treated as a push )

Come on June 16 !
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Re: New Editions

Postby joppie » Thu May 19, 2016 1:55 pm

Full card release can't come soon enough. Currently I need completely new battlegroup for skorne, but will see how the rest of beasts are.
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Re: New Editions

Postby Rorrak » Fri May 20, 2016 12:06 pm

The Menoth update was interesting. Overall I'm happy. I suppose this is the benefit of having a decently sized collection.

They have certainly changed things. My $1 Vindicus may be usable :)
Amon might be pretty good. Flashing blades is a good spell replacement and field martial parry is interesting.
Not excited by Harby, but will give it a fair try. She is usable, don't get me wrong but the way I played her is probably not usable anymore and I used her specifically for that contrast.

Zealots took a massive hit IMO. Losing the +2/+2 prayer for fire immunity is so whatever. You expect Zealots to miss, even with the bonus to attack rolls but without the +2 to splash damage they will probably not see the table top much. Sadly I've wasted effort to paint them :( Menoth now have two white elephants.)

Losing the one turn invulnerability was expected and the replacement is interesting, except its easy to just snipe the monolith bearer out because to be effective he has to be nearer the front lines.

Talking of white elephants. The one unit that no menoth player uses, deliverers, because they suck so hard were nerfed? The mind boggles. So glad I never bothered to paint mine.

Idrian's massive price reduction makes their nerf palatable and a strong replacement for the Zealots now. They can actually do their job for their price. Zealots would have to be basically free so they could be bodies on the field to zone claim.

Errants trading pathfinder for unyielding is interesting, but pathfinder was fairly important. Now only Idrians have path finder. Swapping Quick work for assault seems ok. Many times I could not use quick work because the guy was still in combat with someone else with reach, other times it allowed a deep dip at something in the support lines. Assault will probably net more kills overall than quick work did.

Exemplars look better, without the bond they can now get a UA and they have, just not disclosed what he does yet. (Battle Driven replaces the bond)


Bastions took a big knock.Lost a point of Power, weapon master and 3 health. They gained set defense but at def 11, meh. Their Senechal looks amazing as a Jack Marshal, his jack cannot be targeted by spells and ignores crippled systems along with the other Jack Marshal benefits. So you want to bring him, except, not if you don't bring Bastions.

Double nerfs are multiplicative, not additive.
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Re: New Editions

Postby Menset » Fri May 20, 2016 2:37 pm

Rorrak wrote:Double nerfs are multiplicative, not additive.


Like I said the other day these are not nerfs, they balance adjustments......but when Cygnar gets spoilt you are all welcome to use the words nerf and DOOOOOM!
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Re: New Editions

Postby Rorrak » Mon May 23, 2016 9:03 am

Menset wrote:
Rorrak wrote:Double nerfs are multiplicative, not additive.


Like I said the other day these are not nerfs, they balance adjustments......but when Cygnar gets spoilt you are all welcome to use the words nerf and DOOOOOM!


a nerf is a change to a game that makes something less effective or desirable


So, a downward balance adjustment is a nerf :)

I really enjoy PP for their openness and willingness to keep their game balanced. However they are not gods, and will get some things wrong. I can accept that, and I definitely concede that I could be the one that is wrong but I believe that the Bastions took too much "adjustment". You only really ever saw them with the High Reclaimer because he could protect them with clouds. A strong indication that they were not good enough otherwise. Set defense does nothing for a unit that historically gets shot out, and pretty much doesn't do much for Def 11 models either.



a nerf is a change to a game that makes something less effective or desirable
They're something terribly satisfying about personally murdering the enemy wizard-general. Wracking them is cathartic, like squeezing a great big stress ball, except you're strapping it to a massive metal religious icon and it's screaming. -cryptomancer
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Re: New Editions

Postby Menset » Tue May 24, 2016 4:17 pm

Rorrak wrote:....... but I believe that the Bastions took too much "adjustment". You only really ever saw them with the High Reclaimer because he could protect them with clouds. A strong indication that they were not good enough otherwise. Set defense does nothing for a unit that historically gets shot out, and pretty much doesn't do much for Def 11 models either.


I know that I look like I dont really care about the changes that much but I agree with everything you are saying.

Sadly I have only ever paid attention to Cygnar in the 10 years of owning PP mini's but I can say that the transition from MKi to Mkii was not without its heavy handed "adjustments". Trenchers, Long gunners and poor Darius....they spring to mind on the "over nerfed"/cost readjustment but then you had the other side of the coin where the gun mages + UA just became an auto include.

As you said Rorrak, PP are not infallible in the least and I do imagine that I will be disappointed with some of the changes myself but what I am hoping is that the obscure models that I enjoy playing receive a little boost and that my interest in the game is reignited to the levels it was before I left South Africa.
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Re: New Editions

Postby Dgremlin » Tue May 24, 2016 10:55 pm

With all the adjustments I guess it is inevitable that units/characters and the like that were auto-includes will now be more a selective choice, while other units that were not even worth considering will now have a permanent home on the tablet.
I think of it as a clean up of the rules, with a bit of a shuffle of the "deck" so now we now have to look at how the games is played again, and learn to play it deifferently or the same but with new tools ( models ) ...

This also hopefully creates elbowroom for any new editions bubbling away in the idea's pot.
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Re: New Editions

Postby Menset » Wed May 25, 2016 12:22 pm

so I just want it known that I am sad.....look at what they did to Kraye! He was my favourite....
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Re: New Editions

Postby Dark Angel » Wed May 25, 2016 12:24 pm

I am actually happy with Cygnar overall. Caine2 is even worse than before. The only thing that got hit hard are Kraye (the Eli does not understand) and gun mages who no longer ignore stealth with the UA.
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