Gav Thorpe on AoS

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Gav Thorpe on AoS

Postby Danie Smit » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:49 pm

So Gav's Realmgate wars book released recently, and he wrote a nice article on it. What interests me though, is one of the comments a fan (unfan?) made, and his Gav's response. I must say, very honest reply, and I agree wholeheartedly with him.

For people who dont know, Gav used to be the Warhammer Loremaster until he left to be freelance author only.

See below link to the comment and response:

http://gavthorpe.co.uk/2016/03/06/warbeast-authors-notes/#comment-12248
'SETTRA DOES NOT SERVE' he shouted, trembling with rage.
'SETTRA RULES'
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Re: Gav Thorpe on AoS

Postby Greval » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:21 pm

So I have been catching up on some things as I have not been on the forum (as a whole) for some time.

After reading this thread, in my opinion it boils down to two opinions which are basically noted everywhere now...

Disgruntled Reader:
We all immersed our imaginations, loves (for characters, settings, etc) our money and our time into something that basically just blew up. Our beloved interpretations of characters, settings, histories, etc are now like floating debris and to a degree, everything feels like its just finished with nothing much to play for.

Gav:
While there are things that I do not necessarily agree with, there are some things that I do agree with. Things had to move on and change as it was stagnating into just an endless war. We need to stay positive and we need to adapt to changes that are here, but most importantly, changes that are still coming.

In my opinion (Story):

I cant really comment much on where the story as a whole has gone as I only know what people have told me... but from what I have heard, I also kind of felt like it punched me in the gut and left me kneeling there in some kind of pain and confusion. Why did the whole world have to just end... (Poof, Bye)? Why could there maybe just be some kind of event that created a temporary peace of some kind but could still leave our beloved heroes in tact and either trying to maintain it or plot to change it... In essence, the world ended, sigmar managed to somehow bring everything back and we all start again (with some changes though). It just felt like GW needed to find a way to start again and just needed to find some (any) way to make that happen. There is probably a lot I still need to hear about but this is my opinion based on what has basically been told to me.

In my opinion (Game):

I have played this game a few times and while I do generally enjoy it to a degree, there still feels like there is something missing. I think what's missing in the game itself is the ability to apply your personality to the characters (heroes particularly). Like with many role playing games, you would generally want a "Tank", Healer, Fighter, Rogue / Thief and a Negotiator. But that's not what its all about, otherwise it would be dull... I might want to be a Tank as an example but I would also like to be more than just that... I would like to apply a piece of my own soul and thoughts into it as well. I might be a Tank but maybe I would like him to have a particular history or treat people in a particular way or maybe even have some strange fetish or fear that would set me apart from all other tanks out there...

My point is, this game seems to have the Core principles but leaves very little to allow for personality, particularly with hero building. They have given us choices, but it almost feels like we are restricted. Its the concept of restriction that (again, in my opinion) has made people lose interest.

In past WFB editions, I personally have always aspired to create characters my own way and I would try to adapt my own little stories to them. The best way I could do this was to give them skills / abilities and / or magic items to personalize them and set them apart from others of its kind (My favourite was a Scouting Vampire Lord who loved raising dead behind enemy lines to cause panic and terror among them)... With later editions, they greatly reduced the items in each individual codex and basically forced (most) characters to choose from one particular set of choices. Although there was still some room for "personalized characters", this definitely felt less than earlier editions. In fairness, to counter this they did introduce many new types of units / monsters to choose from, but my joy in the game mostly seemed to be about the general / hero than the unit types to make it fun for me. Call me crazy, but there was nothing more enjoyable than imagining that I was that general, leading the troops into battle and that if he died, a small piece of me died.

I feel that this is the principle to why many things are failing or succeeding now, why games that have "set or one path stories / characters are phasing out versus games with open worlds / open characters.

It is why there will always be infighting between Gamers who play only to win (who choose lists that basically copies the best but maybe with minor differences) and those who play with their own personalities attached to their characters for "fun's" sake.

Hearthstone as a simple example gets tiring to play against set lists over and over again, versus playing against people that play with unusual and interesting lists. The Mage Mech deck, the Priest Dragon deck, the Rogue Card Draw deck, etc... I normally just concede against these as there is no enjoyment in playing against them whatsoever for me...

Food for thought
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Re: Gav Thorpe on AoS

Postby Doc Rot » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:53 pm

One thing I got from reading this was the fact that Sigmar is trying to take the one/uber gate controlled by Archaon (and take the realmgates as he goes).

I have a really really big sneaky suspicion that this will "hit the reset button" and give GeeDub the opportunity to turn back the clock if things haven't panned out as they like.
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Re: Gav Thorpe on AoS

Postby und_ed » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:11 pm

Gav's take was an interesting read.

For myself, from a storyline point of view, I'm quite impressed they had the guts to be so drastic. Is it what I'd have written? No. Is it what I'd have predicted? No. Isn't that a good thing? In this age of franchises and soulless reboots, I'm pretty stoked when an author has the guts to try something radical.

That being said, I don't particularly like the direction it has gone. Much like the game system, I accept that I'm simply not the target market for this one. That doesn't make it terrible, it just makes it for someone that isn't me.

(Although with all this talk of tolerance, it does occur to me that everything I've just said could be used word-for-word to defend the "Twilight" series, so your mileage may vary... :wink: )
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Re: Gav Thorpe on AoS

Postby Dark Angel » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:29 pm

I've pretty much given up on the game but I have always loved the setting and I actually want to read all the new fluff. I'll get to it eventually. Which is the first book?
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Re: Gav Thorpe on AoS

Postby Danie Smit » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:08 am

please... not Twilight...

The first book to get into the setting is Gates of Azyr. Following this is the realmgate wars stories. A lot of different ones, almost like horus heresy. There are also 'legends' books for Fyreslayers and Clans Pestilence which i think are standalone for these two armies.

The first book I read was 'Beneath a Black Thumb' - first in the 'Call of Archaon' short stories (which was later collected into one normal sized book, which then formed part of the Realmgate wars series..). For a short story, which i really enjoyed, it contains Orcs (Orruks), Tzeentch, Nurgle, Clan Pestilence and Lizardmen (Seraphon). Gotta love the bit when a plaguebearer appears and the Skaven Plague Priest's boils starts bubbling uncomfortably
'SETTRA DOES NOT SERVE' he shouted, trembling with rage.
'SETTRA RULES'
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