Looking to start a British list

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Looking to start a British list

Postby DaImp » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:17 pm

So I am keen on starting up a British list, most probably late war and I am thinking it will be based around the Italy campaign or Market Garden. Focus will be on an infantry list.

With that in mind I am trying to work out what the best options for a starter set will be.
Plastic Soldier Company seems to be the cheapest option (about a third cheaper that Battlefront) so that gives me 2 starter sets that interest me.

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15mm Late War British Infantry Company Deal for £40.00
Comprises 1 box infantry, 1 box heavy weapons and 2 packs of mixed base sets
Total 192 figures with 2 inch, 3 inch and 4 inch mortars, PIATs, Vickers HMGs and man pack flame throwers.

This seems a decent infantry collection. A bit vanilla but I suppose thats fine for a core set.

or

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15mm Late War British Infantry Army Deal for £65.00
Comprises 1 box infantry, 1 box heavy weapons, 1 box 6 pdr anti tank guns and Loyd carriers, 1 box Churchill tanks and 2 packs of mixed base sets
Total: 5 Churchills, 4 x 6 pdrs and Loyds and 192 figures with 2 inch, 3 inch and 4 inch mortars, PIATs, Vickers HMGs and man pack flame throwers

All of the box set from above but with added artillery and tanks. This sounds much more useful :) but not knowing the game are they really worth having? (I do know the Brit artillery is powerful)

Any thoughts from those who are more experienced in FoW?
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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby CdlT » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:20 pm

Hey Jonathan,

I'll make a few points for starters. Firstly the new BF plastics are excellent, better than PSC's if a bit more expensive. PSC infantry do not come with bases so add that to the cost, etc.

For a British/Commonwealth Infantry army you will need:

Company HQ (just a CinC and 2iC Rifle teams)
2-3 Rifle Platoons (3 is better wherever possible)
4x 6-pounder Anti-tank guns (at least, and always; always take at least four)
A Scout Patrol of 3x Universal/Bren Carriers (always, you can often get more though)

...apart from that, the real changes will be in support weapons:

Template weapons (Artillery,etc.)

The initial choice here is 3" Mortars, of which you'll use 2-4 teams: these mainly provide a pinning capability, kill infantry/guns in the open and provide smoke screens.

Then you have "killing artillery", i.e. the stuff that will hurt dug-in opposition. The choice is between 4.2" Mortars or 25-pounders. The former are slightly better at killing with Firepower 4+, the latter have 5+ but with the Special Rule Mike Target are effectively Fp 4+ when repeating in subsequent turns (but only on the repeat).

Heavy Mortars are cheaper and for the points a decent choice, but like all mortars cannot defend themselves if attacked directly. 25-pounders are more expensive, but can defend themselves with direct fire and are pretty iconic. Also, if you want to get heavier artillery (5.5" Guns), you'll need an equal number of 25-pounders fielded before you get any 5.5"s.


Tanks

These vary according to theatre and different types are available. Cromwell tanks for instance are only available in NWE (North West Europe), Shermans everywhere, Churchills nearly everywhere, etc. There are differences in armament and the like, but Shermans or Churchills are a better choice with which to start.

Another important tool is the Self-Propelled Anti-tank units, M10s and M10C Achilles...these are your heavy tank killers. You don't have to take them of course, but you do need something to deal with heavy armour (Air, heavy artillery, etc.). Churchills, for the record, are not heavy armour; they're just pretending to be heavy armour :wink:.


The PSC deal is pretty decent for the money, though it makes sense to get another (single) Churchill as they are in platoons of 3 vehicles each. Assuming Confident Veteran (which I would advise to start) and from Roam to Rome (Italy Book), and assuming you get one more Churchill sprue, the deal (+ sprue) would effectively get you:

Company HQ (30 pts)
Rifle Platoon - 3 Sections (180)
Rifle Platoon - 3 Sections (180)
Rifle Platoon - 3 Sections (180)

Mortar Platoon- 4x 3" Mortars (120)
Anti-tank Platoon - 4x 6-pounder (late) (140)
MMG Platoon - 4x Vickers (140)
Heavy Mortar Platoon - 2 Sections (155)

Tank Platoon - 3x Churchill III (late) (300)
Tank Platoon - 3x Churchill III (late) (300)

1725 Pts

Now, typically I'd drop the 3" Mortars to just 2 weapons and drop the MMGs completely. I'd also drop one of the Churchill units and replace it with M10s of some description, and of course add a patrol of Universal Carriers for Reconaissance work. But even so none of the above would go "to waste", you could make room for the MMGs by not taking a third Rifle Platoon, etc. Double-Churchill platoons can work if you plan on launching Nigh Attacks a lot as they move 8" in daylight or at night, so they like the darkness, etc.

British Infantry are really versatile, so you can build general, all-rounder armies, or you can build defensively (more ATGs, MMGs, etc.) or you can build to all-out attack if you want to be aggressive by taking Churchill Crocodiles, Breaching Groups, launching Night Attacks, etc. However, you'll probably want to start off with something more general and you can tailor things from there to suit your play style. The core units (2-3 Rifle Platoons, 4x 6-pounders and 3x Carriers) should remain in every army regardless of intent.

Any questions, just ask: things are a bit complicated in the beginning.

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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby DaImp » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:54 am

Thanks Rex, that's invaluable info!
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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby DaImp » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:00 pm

Just made a comparison cost for the same miniatures from battleFront and it comes to R3280 without shipping. Thats a hell of a lot more than the R1335 without shipping from Plastic Soldier Company.

Is the difference in model quality that big?
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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby Tai-Pan » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:17 pm

In my humble opinion no. Most of my fow models is from psc and they still look great.

I have to however admit that I've not seen any psc british models
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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby CdlT » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:48 pm

Just made a comparison cost for the same miniatures from battleFront and it comes to R3280 without shipping. Thats a hell of a lot more than the R1335 without shipping from Plastic Soldier Company.

Is the difference in model quality that big?


To be clear... I said "new BF plastics", not "replace all things with BF stuff". Apologies if I was unclear. So, ideally if I wanted say Shermans I'd get BF as their models are better. For Churchills however PSC are much better as BF has no plastic equivalent, and the plastic kits are much better than the metal & resin models.

Generally: BF Plastics > PSC Plastics > Metal & Resin (in terms of quality)

However, only high-volume models have plastic options, for others you're stuck with metal & resin.

The PSC deal is exceptionally good value for money, the only thing in it that BF does better is the basic infantry; their plastic infantry are better (but not by that much, the main difference is in the vehicles). If you got them separately you'd be paying more to get them and not getting the PSC discount in the army deal, which is substantial, so probably not worth it if you're looking to keep costs down. Do get get another Churchill so you have six, otherwise the other two go to waste.



For Universal Carriers, get BR211 from BF, it has all the MG options and a useful seated PIAT gunner:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4809 ...I don't think PSC has an option for 15mm UCs yet.

For M10s/M10C Achilles, BR151, but BF may have a plastic kit out in June/July/Aug this year, so maybe best to wait.

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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby DaImp » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:48 am

Again, more really useful info :)
I didn't realise that a lot of the BF stuff is metal or resin so never took that into account. I think the PSC deal is a great starter point and I can add on from there. It doesn't look like its possible to buy a single Churchill tank so I would need to buy another box of 5... unless I am missing something.
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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby DaImp » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:09 am

Or I might get a box of Fireflies and just proxy in the 6th tank needed for either group.
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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby CdlT » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:05 pm

For starters, I'd look at building to a set points value as you can better gauge what you might need or will be using. I'll go with 1650 pts as a general example:

Road To Rome - British Rifle Company (78th Division option) - Confident Veteran

HQ (30)
Rifle Platoon - 3 Squads (180)
Rifle Platoon - 3 Squads (180)
Rifle Platoon - 3 Squads (180)

Scout Patrol - 3x UCs, +PIAT & 2x .50 cals (115)
AT Platoon - 4x 6-pounder (late) (140)
Heavy Mortars - 2 Sections (155)
Churchill Plt - 3x Churchill III (late) (300)
SP, AT Platoon - 4x M10C Achilles (370)

8 Platoons // 1650 Pts

I included most of the deal, and added Recce (Carriers) and heavy Anti-tank (Achilles) to round out the force. That's pretty solid and covers all the required bases.


It doesn't look like its possible to buy a single Churchill tank so I would need to buy another box of 5... unless I am missing something.


The Plastic Soldier Company site is bloody awful:

Home> World War Two > UK and Commonwealth > 15mm > Tank and Vehicles ...last page, it is called REINFORCEMENTS 15mm Churchill, but is £5.50 for a single vehicle :eh:.

That price annoys me, so I just bought another box :) : if you get another box instead you could also do the Infantry Tank Squadron (Churchill Squadron) as the core is eight Churchills (2x HQ, Platoon of 3, Platoon of 3), etc. The support for the army would basically come from things you mostly already would have:

HQ - 2x Churchill III (late) (200)
Churchill Plt - 3x Churchill III (late) (300)
Churchill Plt - 3x Churchill III (late) (300)

Rifle Platoon - 3 Squads (180)
Rifle Platoon - 3 Squads (180)
Scout Patrol - 3x UCs, +PIAT (95)
SP, AT Platoon - 4x M10 C Achilles, +Top Armour (390)

1645 Pts // 6 Platoon

Compared with the Rifle Company list above, its basically swapping around a few thing to run as a tank company: two forces for (nearly) the price of one. But again, only if you want to do this, etc.

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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby mikegeyser » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:08 am

The new sculpts of the PSC infantry looks much, much better - as they're now trying to better match the Battlefront style. I believe they've just re-done their british range, but I stand to be corrected.

http://www.modeldads.co.uk/Life-at-the- ... eo-review/
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Re: Looking to start a British list

Postby DaImp » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:47 am

So this is what I am looking at now.

The PSC Late War British Infantry Army Deal with an extra Churchill tank and a box of Firefly Sherman tanks (will be buying a 6th tank locally).

Then later I will be making an order from BF for things like the UCs
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